Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
Its such an empty criticism when they federate with the ml instances.
I don’t get it. Huh? I find sentiment on .ml extremely anti-Zionist.
they didn’t say it was hypocritical, just empty criticism. They are implying that ml instances are no less egregious about the types of bad content they allow, even if the content itself is different
They are wrong.
You might be a little biased.
Unlike yourself and that other user, who are simply neutral observers? lmao
“B-b-but my side virtuous (in all ways, and can do no wrong), while their side ignoramus (everything they do is because they are poopy-heads)!”
I wish I could add /s here but a good half the population on earth seems to hold to this as an invariant position, solidarity in the face of all obstacles, i.e. the Nazi bar effect.
Case in point: who doesn’t love it when a religious institution offers food and shelter and medical care to the needy, or counsels people to forgive, laying down their burdens and seek therapy to thereby travel lighter through the world? It is the diddling kids part that for some strange reason (/s on this one) people tend to get upset?
Since we were talking about Zionism here, I will mention that Deuteronomy 13:5 (in the Torah, part of the Old Testament for Christian and Muslim and offshoot religious branches such as Mormonism) provides an EXTREMELY stern warning about those who would misuse their authority to lead people astray.
TLDR: intolerance paradox - if you tolerate the intolerant, it corrupts the entire system, giving it a bad reputation when people see the worst excesses and extrapolate that to infer the properties of the whole. e.g. Reddit is fascist, hence we did not stay and put up with it but rather moved here.
They’re pretty anti zionist. Only because Israel represents the west in all its brutality. They fully support the Russian invasion and genocide of Ukraine though, hence the hypocrisy.
wut? Even lemmygrad.ml doesn’t - their support of the Russian Federation’s invasion has always been critical, not full. Just like their support for Hamas is critical - it’s extremely obvious that neither the capitalist-run RF nor the Islamist Hamas are groups they agree with at all.
(I am not a campist, I’m simply explaining the campist concept of “critical support”)
So critical that we never ever hear them criticize Russia for it.
So critical you’ll be instantly banned for saying anything critical of Russian imperialism.
Did you know that inventing “genocides” based on perceived vibes and presenting them as equivalent to extremely real, well-documented, and universally agreed upon actual genocides is a form of genocide denial? Liberals such as yourself have been doing the work of fascists like this for a long time, this type of Holocaust denial is called “double genocide theory”.
What Russia is doing:
Definition of Genocide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war
Unless you think all the shit Russia is doing is just CIA propaganda.
Everything is a cia color revolution to them.
And everything is a genocide to you
No, this one is just a self-serving fabrication by a few nazi-supporting governments.
Do you know what the word “allegation” means?
Do you also insist there’s a genocide in South Africa?
Is that the word used to describe Trump’s pedophilia?
It’s also the word to describe Hilary Clinton’s baby eating
As I said, by treating this as equivalent to the near universally recognized genocide in Gaza, you are engaging in a form of genocide denial. Funny, the map of (the very few) countries that recognize this has a large overlap with the map of countries that do the same form of denial with the Holocaust.
Is your name Lenin Weave after the way you dodge criticism?
I don’t see how highlighting Khurbn denial is dodging criticism.
Somehow, you don’t see the irony.
You weren’t criticizing me, I am just watching you dodge theirs.
They directly addressed it, ya lying freak
I didn’t dodge theirs, I directly addressed it. Their “criticism” is a form of genocide denial. They are fabricating “equivalent” atrocities to a real genocide. Similarly, your “neutral observer” trick here is a cheap way to pretend you’re not taking a side in an argument so that you can dodge criticism of the side you are picking. See the irony?
There is no genocide in Ukraine. Ukranians are Russians.
Truly a .ml stance haha. Do you think the people in Ukraine consider themselves Russian? Is that why they’re fighting tooth and nail to avoid the Russian oppressors?
They’re fighting because the US made them. They would be perfectly happy Russians if not for NATO.
And this is why normal users look at .ml with disdain haha
I think they’re talking about stuff like the holodomor or the uyghurs in china.
Yeah, probably the South African white genocide too, right?
Because the ml instances support zionism…?
Ah but you see clearly opposing imperialism is just as bad as supporting it, I’m such an enlightened centrist
Lemmy.ml, Hexbear.net, and Lemmygrad.ml are all extremely anti-Zionist. Further, dbzer0 defederated from Lemmygrad.ml, and is only federated with Lemmy.ml and Hexbear.net. What are you trying to say?
Nobody would ever accuse you people of defending Jews so it can’t be that you are Zionists. Its about the simping for authoritarian regimes.
Idk where you got that those sites don’t defend Jews. I feel very supported in those places, and the moderation on Hexbear at least takes antisemitism seriously(I can’t say for the other two because I’m on there less often, but I’m yet to hear anything that would make me doubt that they defend their Jewish users as well)
You’re on a .ml account so I’m by default assuming you’re untrustworthy. If you cant see why anyone might get that then you might be blind. I’m sure I could go dig up some examples but then you’d have won by wasting my time proving something that is already obvious.
“you are on a ***** account so I will assume shit”
dumbest logic i have read today, instead of bringing up a real example you say this? you are wasting my time writing this reply right now but that’s good because i’m on company time
well i guess now i will assume every piefed user is a fed /s
Look you’re only mad because its about you. It doesnt matter what you say because all I see is that .ml and a wall of coping text.
Just proudly admitting you can’t read
Wow thats totally admitting I cant read on a text based site.
Communists absolutely defend Jewish peoples, Zionism is anti-semitic, especially anti-Yiddish. We also don’t “simp for authoritarian regimes,” we support socialist systems where the working classes hold the authority in society, rather than capitalists. None of this is “simping,” I support worker-run structures because it’s more equitable and democratic.
I feel like, despite this being explained every time, people still think “dictatorship of the proletariat” is a bad thing because of the word “dictatorship”…
Yep, or they realize it means democratic control by the proletariat, dictatorship against capitalists and fascists, as Marx intended, but then think socialist countries all misunderstood Marx and established capitalist-style dictatorships of the few. This is a deeply chauvanist attitude though, that assumes people in socialist countries too stupid to understand basic Marxist concepts (despite having higher functional literacy rates than the US Empire).
No its because this person is lying. They dont honestly believe in a worker run democracy. Its just a palatable phrase they use to appear less extreme.
They support a political class with total control benevolently dishing out to the working population.
Nope, not what I believe at all, and the fact that you have to invent my beliefs proves you can’t actually argue against my real ones.
1 search for “vanguard” returns several comments of you supporting a vanguard party. That is not “worker run” or democratic. So why lie and pretend you support democracy or workers?
Vanguards are both worker run and democratic. Vanguards are a subsection of the working classes, not a class of their own or outside class struggle, and are both democratic internally, as well as establishing systems of democracy externally. I’m really not sure where you’re getting the idea that believing the working class needs to be organized for revolution means democracy is suddenly off the table.
For example, in the USSR, first-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about. Today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference for other socialist countries, with their own forms of democracy.
So again, why lie about what I believe? I’m not responsible for you not knowing what a vanguard is or how socialist democracy works, but you feel very confident in telling me that I’m lying about it.
What makes you think this way?
what eighty years of anticommunist propaganda does to a mf
Please find the open Zionist admins and mods of major communities who are from .ml. They have their own issues, but Zionism isn’t one of them.
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In no way shape or form Ukraine is a genocide. By using that term for both Palestine and Ukraine you are just demeaning the word, and actually helping the propaganda against Palestine.
Ukraine is defending its sovereignty, and it is experiencing a national aggression by Russia, but what Israel is doing to Gaza is in a different sphere.
What Russia is doing:
Definition of Genocide:
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Russia is, in fact, enacting genocide in Ukraine.
What Russia is doing:
Definition of Genocide:
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The ICC has an arrest warrant on Putin for these abductions.
Putin has used a ukaz/presidential decree to streamline the process of Ukrainian children being made Russian.
Here’s your Independent Journalistic Report:
But sure, keep telling the world it’s only Ukrainian propaganda. I’m ending this conversation here to log off, I’ve got better things to do than deal with a debatebro hexbear user trying to excuse genocide.
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So the person who believes Soviet documentation, will turn around and not believe Ukrainian documentation. How convenient this makes your genocide denial.
You even mention the site showing where you can browse the tens of thousands of missing Ukrainian children, and see the ones who have been returned. You can go find testimonials from those returned children, but still you believe Russian war time propaganda over that.
The utter arrogance and hate to call these unjustified claims when they are backed up by evidence is astounding, but one should expect no less from someone so ideologically driven to manipulate and distort to fit their narrative.
“The source for the crime is, unsurprisingly, the victim, the criminal is denying any wrongdoing” hmmm
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Who is invading who exactly?
“Burglar files counter-claim arguing that the owner of the house they’re stealing from is actually stealing from the burglar”
Nice try but the USSR sided with the Nazis remember. They dont get any credit.
Jesus Christ. Westerners really are the most propagandized people on earth.
Meaningless coming from someone whos entire ideology is to support a uniparty with complete narrative control that executes anyone who thinks different.
???
Least incoherent shitlib
The communists spent the decade prior to World War II trying to form an anti-Nazi coalition force, such as the Anglo-French-Soviet Alliance which was pitched by the communists and rejected by the British and French. The communists hated the Nazis from the beginning, as the Nazi party rose to prominence by killing communists and labor organizers, cemented bourgeois rule, and was violently racist and imperialist, while the communists opposed all of that.
When the many talks of alliances with the west all fell short, the Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon. Throughout the last decade, Britain, France, and other western countries had formed pacts with Nazi Germany, such as the Four-Power Pact, the German-French-Non-Agression Pact, and more. Molotov-Ribbentrop was unique among the non-agression pacts with Nazi Germany in that it was right on the eve of war, and was the first between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It was a last resort, when the west was content from the beginning with working alongside Hitler.
Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:
Not only that, but it was the Soviet Union that was responsible for 4/5ths of total Nazi deaths, and winning the war against the Nazis. The Soviet Union did not agree to invade Poland with the Nazis, it was about spheres of influence and red lines the Nazis should not cross in Poland. When the USSR went into Poland, it stayed mostly to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades prior. Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis, standing idle? The West made it clear that they were never going to help anyone against the Nazis until it was their turn to be targeted.
The communists were responsible for 80% of the total Nazi casualties. The communists beat the Nazis.
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I love a wall of text as much as the next autist but im going to be a low effort in my response because I fucking hate having this conversation with tankies because its always so bad faith.
First of all I need to clear up that I dont think USSR sided with the Nazi’s because they supported Nazi ideology. I’m saying they dont get any credit for joining the war or fighting against hilter because they choose to side with him and support his war effort and only joined because they were backstabbed.
Ok so to sum up you’re point you’re saying that the USSR did the most to fight against nazi germany because they sold weapons to the anti facists in the spanish civil war and one of their westernized diplomats proposed a collective security agreement and they offered to send 1 million troops to france(this would never happen) and said they would support chzek despite having no land border. Then you give 4 paragraphs coping about soviet invasions. No mention of the
You’re ignoring historical context surrounding the USSR and then acting surprised at other countries reactions. I dont think any of what you’ve said really negates them signing an agreement with Hilter to divide up the east and provide support to Hitler’s war effort.
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Does the NZ in your username stand for NaZi? Fucc off colonizer
feels like brexit in that they will no longer have influence or discussion with their sworn enemies
they will just circle jerk on their marxist island
lmao
It just shows how some people know jack shit and still throw their opinions around LMAO
This thread in a nutshell, lmao.