• Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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      The end of the day I won’t blame the young people, though. I will blame the red hat fascists who want to install an orange dictator.

      Edit: Young people get a pass because at least they are passionate about something. I’m over here, dead inside, praying to a computer that things don’t get any worse then they already are.

      • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
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        I blame First Past The Post voting, for keeping the people handcuffed to two legacy political parties.

        Perhaps Republicans would vote less clowns into office, but they are chained to the Republican party.

        Same is true for the Democrats. We don’t need to be stuck with these two parties. There can be something else.

        • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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          Right. I wish people were upset about not having ranked choice as they were the genocide in Gaza. If we changed the way we voted voting for the lesser evil wouldn’t be a thing.

      • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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        I blame my dumb ass for voting for Nader in 2000. Don’t be like me. Learn from the mistakes of others!

        • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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          The people who are to blame are the Republicans. That is where you need to direct your anger.

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            I’m not angry. I regret voting third-party in an election that barely elected Bush, a year before 9/11, that he used to justify a two front war resulting in nearly one million deaths. I’m encouraging others to learn from my mistake.

        • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          If you like Bernie so much maybe listen to him?

          “We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you’ve got to take a look at a whole lot of things,” he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. “On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn’t acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States.”

          • crusa187@lemmy.ml
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            Yeah, Bernie always carries water for the DNC, and it’s always to the detriment of progressive American politics.

            …got to take a look at a lot of things

            Record oil and gas drilling, multi-time failure to codify Roe, redlining, gave away the public option, Manchin’s removed, Bibi’s removed, tricked Warren to betray Bernie for nothing, fascist crackdown on peacefully protesting college kids, ancient dinosaur who’s out of touch. I could go on.

            There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them. The establishment Dems would have you be angry with me and those like me, but this is a misdirection and also just another of Biden’s failings - no ability to take responsibility for his own reprehensible actions.

            • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
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              Americans like you are the absolute worst. So damn irresponsible. All that undeserved extra voting power you have, and you choose to squander it and use it for an act of shameful self-righteousness, with no regard for the consequences of your actions. You clearly have zero respect for progressive politics, progressive movements, and even progressive leaders.

              Ignorant liberal voters: as useful for destroying democracy as ignorant fascists

                • diablexical@lemm.ee
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                  Game theory is a tough subject, but it would be worth it for you to study to understand how you are acting against your less preferred candidate and helping what should be your least preferred candidate (assuming your ranked choice has the republican nominee below the democratic nominee).

                  Keep voting for 99% … gets us to the same place

                  You make it seem as though your protest vote does not also get us to the same place? Many voters have shared your mentality and voted accordingly for the past 200+ years and it’s not made a difference, what makes you think this time things will change?

                • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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                  Biden isn’t 99% Hitler though

                  The only stickler really is the Israeli support, which he is trying to stop. He isn’t even actively pursuing it.

                  So it is 20% Hitler at best, and dropping.

                • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
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                  Biden is not fuckin Hitler, you enlightened genius!

                  Keep voting for Ralph Nader Gary Johnson … err I mean Jill Stein instead of doing something useful.

                  Seriously, what’s the worse that could happen? It’s not like Bush will get us into a massive war and end any hope at fighting climate change err I mean, it’s not like Trump will enflame the ongoing war in the Middle East and decimate any chance the Supreme Court will side with minorities for an entire generation no wait, I mean, surely Trump won’t imprison his political enemies and dismantle the electoral process.

                  Ignore what I crossed out; it’s just American history. You probably wouldn’t be interested

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                I’m always teleported back to grade school and the token, “rough home life” kid. They sit there and back talk the teacher all day long applying their contrarian logic to everything little thing. Hell, on some level I’d even agree with them but not because they’re right in what they are doing but they accidentally make a salient point. The end of the day, though, the teacher was attempting to do good for this kid and we all just watch as they throw it back in their face.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  This may be a hot take but as someone in my 40s I don’t think anybody in their 80s has a fucking clue what’s good for me.

            • daltotron@lemmy.world
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              There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them.

              me when I decide to waste my vote as a swing state voter, instead of meaningfully pulling my support for a candidate that’s ultimately going to get elected anyways out of protest as a non-swing state voter:

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    They don’t understand that Trump is just as pro-Israel as Biden, if not even more so considering he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

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    I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I’m still going to vote for him this time, because we just can’t have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time. I’d never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years. I, too, am sick of this “the lesser of two evils” bullshit, but this time I’m giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can’t afford another four years of this dude.

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    When I was young my parents introduced me to some old school Communists; folks who’d fought in the Spanish Civil War and been blacklisted in the 1950s.

    One of the stories they told was that back in 1968 the oldtimers were warning people to vote for Hubert Humphrey because they knew how bad Nixon would be, Too many young folks then thought ‘both sides are the same.’

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      I don’t know much about him, but reading that he lost the young people vote for supporting the Vietnam War is such a good parallel for today.

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        LBJ realized he’d made a giant mistake and hoped Humphrey could end the War. Nixon ran as a ‘peace’ candidate and made things much worse.

        Trump’s people would nuke the entire Middle East hoping to bring about the Rapture.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          At what point does Biden realize he’s made a giant mistake? You’re lecturing us for not paying attention to history. Is Biden?

          • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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            Turn it around.

            Can you lay out a detailed plan showing Biden exactly what to do? Something that covers not just the Palestinians and the Israelis, but alos the iranians, the sryians, the russians, the Saudis, and all the other interested and highly armed parties in the region?

            I have no idea how to restart a problem that’s been formenting since 1948, do you?

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                If you think it’s that simple, you probably believed Trump was going to get Mexico to pay for the Wall.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  You asked me a question and I answered it. Are you going to answer my question now?

                  At what point does Biden realize he’s made a giant mistake? You’re lecturing us for not paying attention to history. Is Biden?

                  Or hell, let me ask you. Given the choice between supporting Israel or Biden winning the election which would you choose?

              • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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                Biden can’t decide that

                It was decided by a treaty like 75 years ago.

                To overthrow it would take massive changes and breaking contracts. Doable, but not in the time frame you want.

                It really isn’t as simple as you think.

      • misspacific@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        jesus, well this is cementing my choice to move to a deep blue state to get away from people politicizing my existence.

        • Dark Arc@social.packetloss.gg
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          Assuming you’re in the LGBT spectrum … sorry to say even there you might not be safe if Trump gets a second term. Things have softened for the LGB so those folks might be okay, but trans folks … I’d be worried.

          It also weakens purple states and national power when blue voters move out of purple states… Personally, I’d highly encourage folks moving to purple states to turn them more blue.

          Michigan or Pennsylvania might be a good choice. I keep holding out for Ohio, but we need to give the gerrymandering issues (hopefully we finally will this year).

          • Tiefling IRL@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            As a trans person in a deep blue state, I’m hoping my state’s politics give me just enough buffer time that I can find a way to GTFO before the gestapo comes for me

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            Yeah, nowhere is confirmed safe. Fascism is attempting to ascend. Welcome to the 1930s, get a passport and fill a backpack with non perishable calorie dense food.

          • PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world
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            Living in Ohio with my trans husband, we’re moving to Vermont this summer to get away from it all. I feel like I’m shirking my duty by taking our votes with us, but we really don’t want to be here come November. Ohio has gone to Trump two for two, and I’m not feeling lucky on number three.

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          Go to Vermont. Like, seriously. Even though that state has a republican governor, Vermont is like one of the few states that gives a shit about a lot of rights.

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      The communist party of America consistently votes democrat and doesn’t run a candidate. Same with the American Nazi party and republicans.

      My attitude is simple, deal with the problems you can impact. The 2024 elections will not result in a loss of support for Israel. A fascist wants to run a coup in America. That’s on the table, he’s running for president. That’s a problem we can deal with.

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        There’s a line from the last season of ‘The West Wing’ that I always think of.

        It’s election Day and the GOP and Dem campaign managers run into each other in the hotel bar. One turns to the other and tells this story.

        "Got into the cab at the airport and started chatting with the cab driver. He’s a really smart guy and we’re having a great chat. Just before I get out I ask him who he’s voting for today.

        "He shakes his head. Damn, he tells me, I forgot it was election Day.’

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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          Yepppp, I’ve had to tell so many people. I think it’s one of the benefits I got from being raised by a dyed in the wool democrat. We’d argue over a lot as I was pretty radical even as a teenager, but she taught me the value of voting and participating in the democratic process. And arguing with her taught me the value of convincing everyday folks of your position.

          I hate to tell the demsocs that we probably won’t elect away the capital holding class, I’d love it if we could, but we won’t. But we sure as shit can fail to vote to keep our worker protections and environmental protections. And we can vote to get a better situation, it just won’t be a revolution all on its own.

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            I wish I could force every school to show what the original New Deal programs would look like if implemented today.

    • daltotron@lemmy.world
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      I mean I dunno maybe they shouldn’t have ran a guy named hubert humphrey, sounds like the name you’d give to a fictional whale in a children’s novel hoo lee

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    Hi. I’m not American. But we all understand Trump’s threats. Or the inherent threat he poses. I think I speak for the world.

    I’m more worried about a system that let someone like that get this far!

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      I swear I remember my social studies teacher saying one reason for the electoral college is to prevent someone like Trump. The founding fathers didn’t want to trust the popular vote in case the masses got duped. With the polarization of the parties there’s little chance of voting for the other person happening. There are some state laws that force them to vote for their candidate but I’m not sure how many states have the faithless electors clause.

      Of course we got Trump because of the electoral college he lost the popular vote.

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        I have serious concerns about the electoral college. With this upcoming election being the way it is… it’s really hard to say which they’ll vote. It’s really demoralizing to know that even if Biden wins the popular vote they can just elect trump anyway.

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        Yeah I have no doubt that was the original idea. But now it just filters out all but 2 candidates that are paid for by big business and other outside investors. All of them foaming at the mouth to get whatever law makes them another billion eradicated or passed.

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      It always amazes me that, in more than just America, so many people are convinced by people like Trump.

      There might not be the one perfect system but it should be allowed to modernize some flaws to prevent exactly this and allow more parties to exist.

      • Sodis@feddit.de
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        More parties unfortunately does not fix the problem, as you can see by the rise of fascists in nearly all democracies worldwide.

        • iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com
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          Indeed part of the reason the current Israeli government is so radically right is that Netanyahu kept having to find more desperate and less morally-centered parties to make a coalition government with.

          Still, I’m happier living in a country with a dozen parties than on with only two…

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        Definitely a lot of biases but I’ve never met anyone outside the US that even remotely likes Trump. I think the world really sees your presidency as a total joke. But I mean Bush Jr… twice.

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      Speaking as an American: Our system lets people take the office despite not winning the popular vote. That’s just straight-up systemic corruption.

    • MintyFresh@lemmy.world
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      I’ve always said Trump’s not the hero we need but the villain we deserve. We did this to ourselves, with citizens united, 24 hr “news”, straight up stupidity, and a just really strange sort of egotrip. Conversely my boy Bernie is the hero we needed, for the same reasons.

      As to that egotrip. I don’t think losing the Soviet Union was good for us. We need someone to lean into. Those goat spooning terrorist assholes just didn’t cut it adversary wise. China is too foreign to make a truly good enemy. Now we’re just vs. ourselves with predictable outcomes. If only there were a better way.

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    But but but I won’t vote in protest!1 That will definitely make them listen! (/s)

    PSA: Not voting means you have the relevance of an old man yelling at a cloud.

    You move the Overton window by voting. You want policy #857? You have to vote for policy #1 first. You have to walk before you can run.

    • psivchaz@reddthat.com
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      I just want one of the “You can’t vote for Biden!” people to outline what I should do instead. What’s the play here? Dismantle the government? Sure, outline your plan and let’s see if it has any merit. Protest? Great, tell me when and where but it doesn’t preclude the need to vote.

      They talk big, but if their entire plan begins with “don’t vote” and ends with “bitch about it online” then it’s not a great plan.

    • UncleTron@reddthat.comBanned from community
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      That’s why I’m ridin with Biden, despite the genocide!

          • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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            Because a First-Past-The-Post voting system doesn’t care about your ideals. Until we have a different system, literally your only hope of effecting change is to vote for one of the two partied candidates and work locally to influence your party from the bottom-up.

            Voting third party doesn’t send a message you want it to send. It doesn’t send any message at all except “I approve of whatever you choose for me.”

          • Tiefling IRL@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            Because capitalism profits from genocide. The question then is, are you ok with diet Palestinian genocide or would you prefer the supersized Palestinian genocide combo with a side of homegrown genocide?

          • john89@lemmy.caBanned from community
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            There are 2 sets of voters in this nation.

            Those who want to solve the problems we face, and those who just want to kick the can down the road for someone else while rich people get richer.

            If you vote for republicans or democrats, you’re in the latter camp.

            It really puts things into perspective when you think about it like this.

            • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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              What problem do you believe you’re solving by making it easier for Trump to take office?

              Are you offended that women still have some control over their reproductive health, and you need to see that eroded further?

              Is it a problem that we aren’t allowed to sexually assault people without repurcussion?

              Do you see issues with people still being allowed to vote?

              Do you hate legal immigrants, which have consistently lost rights and been victimized by the Republican party over the past few administrations?

              Do you dislike your ability to relatively-freely travel abroad, due to our many alliances?

              Do you wish we had a giant wall that has been proven ineffective by virtually every single study on the subject, including GOP-backed ones?

              Do you wish we were helping Israel commit genocide even harder than they already are?

              • john89@lemmy.caBanned from community
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                My issue is that while we squabble over social issues, the ruling class fucks us with fiscal ones.

                Greed and the growing disparity in wealth is the worst issue we face as a species.

                If Biden wins we lose. If Trump wins we lose harder. Each option results in a loss because we don’t want actually want to address the disparity in wealth.

            • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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              If you want to move the Overton window, you vote. That’s the perspective you need.

              • bamboo@lemm.ee
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                The Overton window is not something that can be changed electorally. Candidates can only get on the ballot in the first place if they’re within the Overton window, as anybody outside the window is “radical” or “extreme”, and the existing political powers forbid their candidacy. The electoral window is moved outside the electoral process, and only then can the electoral system permit new candidates with new ideas.

                • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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                  Lol yes it can. Why are we having idiotic discussion to disband the EPA? Because Trump won an election. That moved the Overton window, drastically at that. Why can’t Biden do ______? Because the Republicans still have a very real chance of winning. When the GOP has no chance of winning, then the Overton window can move more.

                • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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                  So… were just ignoring the current candidates? And the current debates and policies that each have pushed?

              • john89@lemmy.caBanned from community
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                Yeah. You need to vote for candidates that don’t just look out for rich people.

                • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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                  How do you get that? By moving the Overton window. And how do you get that? By VOTING. But it seems you want to yell at a cloud instead. Something tells me you’ll just keep at this ‘whoo is me’, so I’m out.

              • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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                Meanwhile, the Overton window has been shifting right radically. Seems like this lesser of two evils nonsense is actually doing the opposite of what you claim.

                • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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                  Moved because Trump won an election. But you want to suggest that’s just random? C’mon.

                  *Btw it’s moving the Overton window, not lesser of two evils as you want to put it. You want policy number 426? You have to vote for policy 1 first. You have to walk before you can run.

            • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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              Self-righteous bullshit. I want to solve problems someday and that’s precisely why I vote for Democrats. Letting Trumpists take over now will make any progress vastly harder for the foreseeable future.

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                You’re one of the latter.

                Let me know when democrats start supporting policies that reduce the disparity in wealth.

                We saw everything we needed to see with Bernie. Neither establishment party cares about regular, working class people.

                • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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                  Ah, so since one of your two options doesn’t give you everything you want, you’ve decided that you’re okay with the one that wants to take away everything you have. Cool story, good luck with that.

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                  1 year ago

                  Let me know when another party gets more than a single digit percent of the vote.

      • Ioughttamow@kbin.run
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        1 year ago

        Let’s vote for trump and get some American boots on the ground! Can’t let the IDF take all of the glory!

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        You misspelled Netanyahu. Also you will have egg on your face from head to toe when you find out what Biden is really doing to stop the killing in the Mideast.

      • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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        Lol you think Biden is right of Trump. Right well thank you for letting me know I don’t have to reply any further.

          • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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            I could sus it like you think Biden moved it right (lol), but that requires you ignore Trump would have moved it further right, which is exactly the Overton window is moving it as left as you can every step, but why the fuck am I bothering even with this you’ll just say but but but but but but Biden bad! I’m out.

          • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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            Is it fair to say that the overton window is only moving right when we are still making progress moving it left?

            The overton window isn’t a zero-sum measure. It can expand simultaneously in both directions. Given that we have nazis in the street now, I’d say it’s not correct to say that it’s moving only left either.

        • Disaster@sh.itjust.works
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          That has little to do with whatever political machinations are occurring and more to do with housing and necessities inflation driving labor pressure as a lagging inflation indicator.

          Think of it as a tectonic/landscape thing rather than the stupid games people happen to be playing on the landscape.

          Of course if any of them had their heads out of their own asses, or the asses of their owners, they might recognize this and start adapting…

  • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    I almost wish Jimmy Carter would run for a second term. 99? 82? Age is just a number now apparently anyway lol

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        I still don’t understand why he’ll never be president except, ofc, he would never play the games that come with politics these days.

        America is fast losing its chance for redemption.

        • ninjabard@lemmy.world
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          Because when idiots hear Socialism they see Communism and it’s frighteningly easy to start a red scare propaganda campaign to keep him off the big ticket.

          • tamal3@lemmy.world
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            The guy who fixes my car basically runs a French-style salon out of his shop, and he told me, “The South Will never vote Socialist.” Seems he’s right so far. That and he goes against the powers that be… Bernie would have been a nightmare for the rich and powerful.

        • PugJesus@kbin.social
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          He got outpolitiked in the 2020 primary. Really the only reason why he’s not president right now.

          • Guy Ingonito@reddthat.com
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            He had 4 years to shore up his weakness with black southern voters and never did. He could’ve offered Bootyjudge VP in exchange for staying in the race and keeping the center vote split but didn’t.

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    there is an understandable wave of nihilism manifesting in the younger generations that will probably persist for as long as they live. i don’t imagine the united states will stop producing nihilists for a long time as the circumstances are not projected to change

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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      I hope it won’t turn into “weaponized doomerism” like in Eastern European countries like Hungary and Russia.

      In Hungary, a lot of people just gave up altogether, and stopped voting. It’s also often being used to get people to become Fidesz supporters.

      • markon@lemmy.world
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        If they fuck around they’re going to find out real fast. Look how long it’s taken to get weed semi legal. Like we’ve already lived in a kinda super wealthy oligarchy. I don’t think we need to fight, unless the fascists win. They don’t make up nearly the majority though so we could see what happened in Brazil here, horrible but they did get a more socially minded president. But Trump never conceded and still doesn’t. He’s caused basically a weird cult.

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The Unconcerned: “Orange man bad”

    Me: YES! Orange man VERY bad, glad we were able to dumb it down for you in a way you can understand it.

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    Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.

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        Yup. (I was just mirroring Bernie’s verbiage and flipping the active subject)

        Biden is the quintessential capital-L Liberal: he is performatively responsive to progressive issues, but only insofar as it does not alter the fundamental power structures of the western capitalistic and chauvinistic principles.

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      If you are worried about the Palestinians, do you expect Trump to be more lenient in that regard? I think it would be even worse with Trump. He’d not be mildly criticizing Netanyahu, but would rather asking Netanyahu why he isn’t going further

      • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Stop blaming the voters and start blaming the politicians who are supposed to be representing them.

        • TanteRegenbogen@discuss.tchncs.de
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          But as someone who doesn’t have to live in the hellhole called the US, sees that they are represented by their own politicians accurately. The US let it come this far because the US decided to perpetuate a system that just makes everything worse due to lesser evil politics. So by USean logic, voting Biden prevents worse things from happening to Palestinians compared to Trump. But I personally would vote for someone who accurately represents my stances instead of buying into the lesser evilism in a messed up system.

  • 𝓔𝓶𝓶𝓲𝓮@lemm.ee
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    I think it would be helpful if people tranformed their concerns from meaningless doomposting to active political effort.

    Cause the first is almost as bad as not worrying at all.

    • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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      The problem is there’s a lot to doom post about.

      I get it that Biden has some possibly underreported accomplishments, but like Trump tried to overthrow the government and is still walking around like nothing happened.

      • 𝓔𝓶𝓶𝓲𝓮@lemm.ee
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        Yes but circlejerking around it accomplishes nothing. Reach out to new audience, convert, talk, argue, influence.

        • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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          Eh, I got a day job and a full life. I can barely fit in the doom scrolling I already do today.

          I appreciate the sentiment, but it’s been my experience in >40 years of living that the amount of influence I’ll be able to have over the onslaught of doom is miniscule.

          I kinda lost all hope for the future of this country when Trump was elected the first time. After how disastrous his first term was, if this country full of morons actually puts the clown back in that same position I’ll completely and fully give up on it.

          It’s the idiots’ country, I just have to live in it.

    • pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml
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      I think the current climate of digging up anything someone has ever done or said that is against the current accepted morality and punishing them for it severely makes a lot of people not want to stick out their neck. This probably isn’t an accident.

  • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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    That sound… As if millions of “muh corrupt DNC” trolls cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced…

    • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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      Doesn’t change any of the entirely valid complaints about the DNC. They’ve been running on “vote for us because the GOP should scare you shitless” for a good long while now.

      They don’t have to do any better than not being as horrible/scary as the other guy and they know it. And the GOP usually gives them an awfully low bar.

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        It’s this shitty attitude of the DNC that allowed the “genocidal maniac vs genocidal maniac” meme to fester. If you don’t figure out how to take the party away from their hands, you’ll keep running into situations where the DNC and its politicians will keep betraying your expectations with truly horrendous shit, rather than trying to represent their actual voters. Unfortunately far too many Americans have too much Stockholm Syndrome to dare move a finger if they don’t have literally Bernie Sanders running on primaries, which he isn’t going to do anymore due to age.

        • maniii@lemmy.world
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          Bernie Sanders has already stated that it is up to the Youth of the nation to run against every single politician and win back their future. Young voters and young politicians must have each others backs.

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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      Serious question for any leftists here who are voting third party - which candidate do you recommend?

        • nexguy@lemmy.world
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          There isn’t a single non-genocidal candidate. Either they support Israel committing genocide or don’t support Ukraine defending itself from genocide.

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          I disagree. When people could agree on one third party and that party gets 20% of the popular vote, then it is a direct threat to Democrats power basis. Because then for the next election they could replace the Dems. It is crucial to vote a third party, as it forces the Dems to start caring for the people instead of just their Superpac donors.

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        Cornell West and Jill Stein are proponents of helping the Palestinians, so I imagine one of them.

        All the other, mainstream, candidates are vocally pro-Israel. Trump and RFK are more pro-Israel than Biden.

        My ultimate hope is that Biden grows a spine on this topic, and draws some rules of engagement for Israel if they wish to receive further aid; however, they seem to have the US govt by the balls somehow.

        • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
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          Note: I’m voting Biden.

          I really think that he can’t grow a spine on this. I really wish he could. For people that old (like trump) it is difficult to grow out of these old habits. It’s like asking your grand parents to stop calling black people boy cause it’s racist.

          They don’t want to understand. Growth is hard. The western world gave Israel a pass for so long because “we didn’t really think the Holocaust was that bad till we got there.” Now they can’t see that Israel grew into a fascist state.

          That is why I think we need younger people in charge and it frustrates me about our choice. Still obviously vote for Biden.

          • theangryseal@lemmy.world
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            It’s more than just that too. Older people vote more than younger people. Younger people are concerned with Palestine, older people are ride or die with Israel. A lot of it has to do with their religion, I’d say most of it really. I hear older democrats all the time mocking the younger people and their protests in support of Palestine.

            It’s funny because in a historical context, Jews have been terribly persecuted by Christians.

            When I was a kid growing up in an evangelical, Pentecostal movement, we were taught that the Jews were God’s chosen people. We were taught that we had to back Israel no matter what and that the nation who went against Israel would collapse.

            Their parents would have been taught something very different regarding Jews in general.

            I don’t have a problem with Jews myself, just what the Israeli army is doing right now. I don’t understand why the world has been so unkind to them for so long. I don’t understand how the people of Israel can’t see the parallels between what they’re doing and what happened to them in the 20th century.

            I’d say 9/11 and the anti Arab sentiment that grew out of that has something to do with older people being less concerned with the welfare of Palestinians too. I never heard a bad word about Arabs when I was a kid, but after that happened I heard the term “towel head” daily for years. Younger people view that as a historical event and not something that affected their lives directly.

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    I’m not worried. I’m just utterly disappointed in the younger generation. Not in the whole typical way you’d expect older generations to be towards the younger ones.

    It’s more along the sense of “put down your fucking memes and jokes for abit and realize the reality that’s around you” deal. Because we’re now seeing the Onion practiced in our daily lives, we can’t make the shit up that is actively happening in real time. And it doesn’t affect just me, it affects you too.

    We can’t be putting off this shit forever and sit there going “aww, I just hope it gets better” naturally.

    Because let’s put it this way, say you don’t vote this general election and Biden wins. Okay, cool, we’ve dodged Trump. But know that in the next 4 years, Biden is not eligible to be re-elected so good on you to no longer see him on the ballot, but you’ll never know who could be next after him and there isn’t a lot of strong favorability for his VP either. Trump for all we know, is likely going to run until he dies, so he’s going to be trying again and again so long as he’s living and so long as his voter base is there to back him.

    But even when he dies, god knows what the Republicans will try propping up. We’ve got a bit of a glimpse of that when known fascists like DeSantis tried running for presidency. The only reason him and other candidates has lost is because they can’t touch Trump. But when Trump does die, you know they’ll be back again.

    My point is we need to keep Republican interests the fuck away. They’re nothing but destruction. How much evidence do you need before you see that? It’s all fun and games to you with your jokes and memes until you’re on the internet bitching and griping for why you think shit hits the fan or why you’re struggling to make a living.

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    as a black person i’m worried that donald trump’s batting average isn’t showing the potential it should be this season. he should spend more time in the cages.