The Democratic Socialists of America pulled its endorsement of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York this week, accusing the progressive congresswoman of being insufficiently supportive of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza…

Her approach has increasingly strained her relationship with some of the left’s most strident critics of Israel. When she rallied last month in the Bronx with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Jamaal Bowman, dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators angry over her endorsement of Mr. Biden chanted “You’re a fraud, A.O.C.”

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from communityOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    For some Genocide and Apartheid is a red line.

    If you believe that is a radical statement for the left it might be time to reconsider the definition of left.

    • DogWater@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Look I truly hate that this is the situation we are in, but, If you want to have an absolutist point of view about Israel then your carbon footprint better be negative. Like home steader, grow your own food, no kids, no car, hunt for meat, no online shopping, etc.

      Because if not, youre indirectly but actively contributing to the suffering of millions of innocent and exploited people in underdeveloped nations. Not to mention millions of animals and plants.

      Innocent people will suffer famine, drought, and natural disasters. They will die by the hundreds of thousands in the coming decades. These victims will be people who did not participate in the modern consumerist economy by buying products from companies who actively deceive the public, practice regulatory capture, as well as bribing and corruption scandals all in the name of short term shareholder gains.

      It’s Absolutely hypocritical to condemn people who want to prevent a second trump term and thus recognize a need to vote for an imperfect Biden when there’s no way you meet the threshold required to have clean hands in regards to the climate crisis.

      The gut instinct is to say “well what can I possibly do about climate change” and that’s exactly my point. All you can do is limit the impact.

      You can’t reconcile excusing yourself from your part in climate change, however minor it may be, if you’re trying to uphold such a strict standard against Biden and Biden voters. why? because you already know the consequences if Biden fails to retain the presidency. You know what trump victory means for minorities, lgbtq, the climate, etc. and with project 2025 it likely will be way worse this time.

      You don’t get to look back and say you weren’t at fault if Trump wins because your ballot didn’t say trump. You know a vote for 3rd party or a no vote is a vote for Trump in the current system. That makes you complicit if he wins. Believe me, I went through that in 2016. I regret it.

      This is an extreme metaphor to help you see that sometimes you have to acknowledge that terrible things are happening but limiting the damage might be all you can do.

      You can vote for Biden in November and still criticize him and Democrats the entire time. That’s not being a hypocrite.

      Letting trump win and pretending you didn’t contribute to all the additional damage that follows is.

    • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t think an organization as small and relatively insignificant as DSA has the luxury of being so idealistic. What strategic benefit comes from alienating your minimally influential organization from one of its most high profile political supporters? By all means, draw a red line, but you might find that you’re pretty lonely behind it.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from communityOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Seeing as the elections are coming down to having to scrape every small party to get over the line the DSA suddenly becomes quite significant. As is the uncommitted movement in Michigan which Biden has ignored.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      For some, it’s a red line letting full-strength Hitler style genocidal authoritarian fascism take over the most powerful country in the world, and resisting it is a better idea than pointless gestures of token resistance to somewhat more minor world power misbehavior, which ultimately benefit literally nobody at all

      But everybody’s different

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from communityOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        And for others Biden is already that Hitler style Genocidal authoritarian.

        Demanding to not support Genocide is not a big ask. If Democrats are not even willing to abide by that they don’t believe in that 2025 talk as much as they claim.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from communityOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            When I think of the bad things Hitler did it was the Genocide that bothered me more than his dictatorship.

            • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              I will say, the instant Biden puts 6 million civilians to death and starts a war that kills 70 million people I’m definitely planning not to vote for him.

              Or!

              I know, when people write books about fascism they write about all the weapons Hitler sold to other countries and how that was the real problem and what those other countries did with the weapons. Everyone knows such a thing was un heard of before Hitler, and now under Biden, it’s coming again. There are whole museums devoted to Hitler’s weapons sales.

              Or!

              I know… some of the holocaust survivors who were alive in 2016 had these sort of chilling interviews where they talked about the eerie similarities between Biden and Hitler and how they really hoped people would realize how important it was not to vote for Biden. They didn’t really put a lot of attention into who his opponent was, because they said that’s not the point.


              Take your pick, this one is a choose your own adventure

              • nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Wheres your red line between directly causing 6 million deaths and heavily funding and even sending airplanes to people who have killed 20k women and children. Because if one thinks its only genocide if you’re directly ordering the death of 6 million, you’re going to miss a lot of genocides that are clearly happening.

                How about Russia and Ukraine? By the tone of your comment Id asusme that wouldn’t qualify to you either. So how far is to far? Or it is literally anything less than 6 million isn’t it?

      • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Not true at all:

        The Democratic Socialists of Americacondemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and demands immediate diplomacy and de-escalation to resolve this crisis. We stand in solidarity with the working classes of Ukraine and Russia who will undoubtedly bear the brunt of this war, and with antiwar protestors in both countries and around the world who are calling for a diplomatic resolution.

        • SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          This is taken directly from their official statement letter:

          DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.

          https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/

          This is from official “condemnation” on Feb 26, 2022. Their condemnation just comes off as tone deaf when they say shit like this, especially right after the invasion. How tone deaf, but they double down on the Russian propaganda fueled stance:

          The war in Ukraine is a disaster for working class people in Ukraine, the region, and a terrible threat to us all, including increasing the danger of nuclear war and exacerbating global economic crises. We oppose the Russian invasion and call for the withdrawal of Russian troops through a settled ceasefire agreement. We recognize that the expansion of NATO and the aggressive approach of Western nations have helped cause the crisis and we demand an end to NATO expansion. We also oppose US and NATO military interventionism and the tens of billions in military aid and weapons shipments which only further exacerbates the war and undermine a negotiated settlement, as well as sanctions that will harm ordinary Russians. We call on the US and other countries to welcome refugees fleeing the war and provide needed humanitarian aid.

          https://international.dsausa.org/ukraine/

          And again:

          https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/dsa-and-the-war-in-ukraine-toward-a-mass-socialist-anti-war-movement/

          There seems to be a common theme going on. They “condemn” the invasion, but blame the US and NATO for it, push for negotiations that Putin wants, and try to justify Russia’s reasons for invading. Now, when Ukraine itself is against these narratives… who exactly is pushing them? Who is benefiting from this propaganda and misinformation? Oh that’s right, it’s Russia… which the DSA just happens to conveniently align with.