The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.
I’m not in a panic. I knew this. Should he have run again? Hell no. I wish he would have had the courage to call it a day.
That being said, I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC’s best choice.
I think it’s to late to change things up. That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
That being said, I don’t think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.
I agree. I’ll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I’m not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I’ll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
Which will be the fault of Democrats.
It will be the fault of Republicans first and asshats on the internet 2nd.
Not the elder abusers?
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
We heard this same talking point in 2016 but somehow we still had a 2020 election.
As if the J6 putsch didn’t happen lol
At the end of the day, that’s the main takeaway here. It’s not so much the men themselves, but the people they intend to appoint to positions of authority. Biden will appoint experts and professionals to run the country for him. Trump will appoint sycophants and yes-men to do whatever he wants to do, even if it flies in the face of reason or standard procedure, and unlike last time he won’t allow anyone who isn’t 100% loyal to him to work in his administration.
Thats my take on it at least (although with Trump I’m not sure who will be using who if he’s elected). It’s frustrating that few people are talking about this, cause at the end of the day neither of them are fit (physically/mentally) to be president. So for once it really is just about the party and policies and not the person running.
That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
What is with this absurd disconnect from reality? The DNC charter says only the voters have the power to choose the nominee.
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While I agree, it’s way too late in the game to change up now. There’s no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It’s not about willing, it’s about alternatives.
There doesn’t have to be a strong candidate, just anyone stronger than Biden who’s basically zombie-crawling across the floor.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
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This is the way the DNC set their rules up, they’ve been ok using the system to kneecap progressives, I see no reason that they shouldn’t do that to Biden. I’m not precious about the DNC and I have no illusion that it’s democratic, so they just need to stop pretending they’re being held back by principles and just pull the levers they always pull to control the convention outcome.
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He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
He absolutely can’t be legally replaced unless he agrees to that.
And the replacement would automatically be Harris unless she agrees to allow someone else. The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee. Changing that charter this close to an election likely wouldn’t stand up in courts. The only way to replace Biden would be to convince him to step down.The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee.
They argued in court that they could ignore this.
Nope. They argued in court that they could alter their charter.
Gretchen Whitmer would run away with the election. Plus, we get Michigan (swing state) and the suburban moms. I really can’t see a downside.
There are so many better options at this point. I can’t help but shake that the two party system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Make people think that mediocrity is the best we can get if we’re lucky.
We got FDR and LBJ and Lincoln and Washington. So if you think that then that’s on your own faulty thinking.
You’re free to keep supporting Biden at this point but hopefully when you see all the Democratic news outlets saying the same things tomorrow and this coming week and the polls showing Biden’s support dropping you’ll reconsider
WTF are you talking about. What I want is for Biden to drop out and be replaced by Gavin Newsom. Nor did I vote for Biden in the 2020 primary. I’m just saying that you’re completely wrong that the system cannot produce good candidates since we’ve had great presidents in the past.
AOC would be a really strong candidate. The right would freak out and she’d end up getting more press coverage than Trump. I imagine she’d make several Republican’s embolisms pop.
The party would rather lose democracy forever than nominate AOC.
Yes, she’s probably the only one with enough name recognition and veracity to take on the orange moron in my opinion. Problem is corporate Democrats wouldn’t back her because she’s too progressive and that goes against their corporate masters.
True… However if Trump gets elected and our government is able to prevent a dictatorship, in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
Embarrassment and danger.
There’s no danger. Even frail Biden is 1000x more competent than trump
Danger from Trump getting elected
We’ll need to see the polling in about a week but I haven’t seen a performance this bad since Palin. The Democrats may need to go to an open convention.
After he wins the election, he could retire and let Harris rule in his stead.
Then there’s Schumer (provided he’s still the majority leader.)
There really is no need for a weekend at Bernie’s situation.
I would. You would. But there are millions of voters who aren’t as informed. And what they saw last night was an ancient, out of touch candidate channeling Walter Mondale. Many will probably still vote for him, but this performance will depress voter turnout.
What a disaster. I can’t remember the last time I saw a decent presidential debate, they all devolve into completely failing to answer the questions and just attacking the opponent. The only thing this new format did was prevent them from constantly talking over the opponent when their time was up.
What the hell happened to Biden? I mean, he’s old…but normally his speaking is far, far better despite his stutter. He could hardly get coherent rebuttals out half the time and had a hard time enunciating his policy goals.
Trump…nothing but a torrent of lies, [insert group] loves me, and “hurr durr you’re stupid, Biden.” But he was able to spew his word salad clearly.
They should have had fact-checkers, but the problem is that trump told so many lies so fast that 75% of the debate would have been the moderators having to correct trump’s bs.
This was embarrassing, to put it mildly. Terrifying to see trump look better than Biden - if you ignore what was actually said.
People who aren’t the VBNMW crowd saw the writing on the wall for Biden. This debate only helped Trump even tho Trump literally didn’t answer anything. That is Trump’s style all insults or jokes and no substance. Not sure what happens here it is way too late to switch to anyone else. We’re cooked.
I literally counted every one of Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump’s lies and the total was over 200.
As for Biden, I am deeply hoping that behind the scenes other Dem politicians are furiously trying to convince Biden to drop out and be replaced with Gavin Newsom. The party rules are that Biden would need to agree to formally release his delegates. But since Biden has maintained all along that he only ran to keep Treason Trump out of office, I think it would be possible to persuade Biden to drop out. Leave Harris as VP because she would need to have buy in as well. The convention is not till August so it doesn’t have to happen tomorrow but it does need to happen before the convention so they need to start working on it right now.
Legitimately planning how I’m going to weather a Trump presidency after the debate. Unimaginably disheartening.
You could call your congressional representatives asking that they encourage Biden to step aside for a better candidate.
Pretty sure after tonight my congressional representative is thrilled that Biden is the one running.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe they’d have a recommendation on where Biden can actually get those performance enhancing drugs they said he’d be on.
You have a state democratic party and contacts for the national democrat campaigns assigned to your state. Contact them.
Likewise. My representative is a maga chud because the party cut off funds to her progressive opponent.
This would be as effective as asking their GOP representative to stop being a dick.
There will be other elections. And more debates including the VP one. Maybe we will get lucky and one of them will die.
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport III 5.56 NATO w/ bump stock
/liberalgunowners is on Reddit.
that was the worst fucking thing i’ve seen on tv in my life. holy shit that was depressing. yet it feels incredibly vindicating seeing every single media outlet openly say ‘that was a disaster, he should probably be out’. that was an absolute failure. rescheduling the debate would look better than that shit.
Suburbanite eggs? I hate that elitest shit! Also, didn’t Mark Russell die last year?
I think he died before we beat Medicare.
I’m not sure what that means. I believe he died last summer.
seeing every single media outlet openly say 'that was a disaster, he should probably be out.’
So it should be easy to source a couple of them saying that, right?
you’re quibbling about sources after that?
i mean ok:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-debate-performance-democrats-panic-rcna157279
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745090-biden-debate-disaster-democrats-concerned/
The debate wasn’t that bad and none of those articles contained the quote you used.
It’s very important not to practice self-deception in these kind of things
Why would democrats start now? They’re acting exactly like they did with Clinton and are expecting different results.
It was painful to watch. You go in wanting to watch Biden look strong and smart, and he came out looking sort of senile and slow. Trump might have told all lies but he still looked and sounded sharper than Biden and that is what people will use to make a decision.
💯
I think you may have been watching the wrong debate
There was a 12 point swing towards Trump in the before and after CNN flash poll. That’s bad. That’s wake everyone up and reef the sails because an out of season hurricane blew up on us bad.
I watched about 30 minutes, gotta say Trump was all over the map and not answering questions. Biden was raspy and stuttered, like he does , but he actually answered the questions. Trumps answer about what he would do about the fentanyl crisis was ‘I bought a dog’
When asked if he supports some restrictions on abortion, Biden said he “supports Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters. The first time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor, I mean, between the women and the state.”
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He missed a slam dunk when he pivoted from abortion to immigration, there was no logical reason to do that.
The Republican strategy has been to focus on immigration as the root of all economic evil. And since Biden’s economic gains have been heavily overstated, he’s forced right back into the old “We have to force foreigners out in order to keep our wealth in” fascist politics.
We need an open convention
Idk who this “We” is supposed to be. Are you speaking as a well-positioned party superdelegate, member of the DNC leadership committee, or mega-donor? Or are you some internet armchair asshole watching this trainwreck from the nosebleed seats?
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Biden’s economic gains have been heavily understated.
Yep, that was so much worse than I ever imagined it was going to be.
They did this to themselves. Total strategy failure, holding this debate so early in the race. Also trusting CNN’s moderator to follow all the rules and fact check both candidates live.
Why do liberals fail at strategy? I suspect it’s due to their tendency to spend more time thinking about how to go about things than on what things they should go about. Valuing the means at the expense of the ends, yet again.
Wow, you’re smart! You should be president! You can fix everything right?
This sarcasm doesn’t help. But to answer your obviously facetious question, no, I can’t fix everything. But what I can do, is consider that perhaps pursuing justice rather than manners might actually be “going high”. And if Republicans are going to break rules, I’m certainly within my rights to bend them. We can all agree that “The ends justify the means” is a shitty moral philosophy, but you liberals tend to overcorrect to the point where thinking about the ends at all is -in some vaguely reflexive kinda way- innately immoral.
And I’m not the smartest guy in the world, but even I know there is a moral imperative to disobey the rules when following will not lead to justice.
I can also call a fascist, a fascist. Instead of simply requesting that the rules be followed, and trusting that fascist ideas will be voted against, we should do to fascists, everything that they would do and have already done to us.
This whole night was so many layers of exhausting, but probably not for the reasons you think… No rational, serious person was expecting Biden to Willy Wonka front somersault into this debate? it was going to be what this was, the only true surprise was probably the volume of his voice (which they chalk up to a cold, okay fine, I guess) and actually how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump’s gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators for the majority of the night.
The people in this country, in their immediate reaction to this debate, demonstrate that they just fundamentally lack the focus, empathv and frankly basic intelligence to process the substance of this or any debate. On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler… Or a dog.
Or a gorilla, but I think a gorilla is too much credit.
Still better than the Traitorapist.
Traitorapist.
OMG Awesome label! I am so stealing that from you!
Please spread it far and wide
Traitorapist
Oh come on, you’re not even trying now, lol
No doubt it’s easy pickins…
Sounds good. I will enthusiastically vote for Biden. Let’s go.
Can you spread that enthusiasm to 82 million more people?
Yes.
The gaslighting ran out of gas
There’s a rumor that they are going to replace Biden with Jimmy Carter, so he can get a second term. I joke.
The conspiracy theorists all say Joe is supposed to step down and Gavin Newsom somehow is added to the ticket which then will win. These conspiracy theorists also say that candidates are selected in advance by the powers that be and it’s all pagentry to deceive the gullible masses. Try to look surprised when he gets replaced and they add Gavin.
The only realistic person who would replace Biden is Kamala Harris, and I don’t think people would vote for her.
She’s not Trump. People would vote for her.
This seems to be the only criteria anyone can evaluate. But if that’s the case, why bother removing Biden? Let the man drool his way into a second term. Its all the same, so long as he isn’t Trump.
So, we’ve got an old, racist guy who lied through most of his statements and refused to possibly say that he would accept the results of the election vs an old guy with a history of a speech impediment that showed signs of his speech impediment and regularly pointed out the lies spouted off by his convicted felon opponent. Why are the media companies banking Trump again?
Exactly. I guess we are learning that most of our fellow citizens have a hard time with nuance, and all they can do is shit their pants instead of toughen up.
Some people just aren’t living in denial
How come when they show old campaign videos of Biden where he’s plagiarizing others his so called stutter/speech impediment doesn’t seem to be there? And I thought the new excuse was that Biden had a cold anyway
…He was younger and the videos, being campaign videos, are edited to show him in the best possible light?
ETA: To be clear, I don’t think that he or anyone else too old to have to worry about the long-term consequences of their actions should be in office. But, he’s the only non-nazi choice available.
You’ve just been fooled by the MSM about the nazi garbage. Same with Joe being sharp as a razor. They just can’t hide it anymore
No. I didn’t tend to follow MSM. I think that’s it’s mostly that he snuggles up to dictators, says he wants to be a dictator, quotes Hitler, praises Hitler, and is supported by people waving about swastikas and spouting nazi slogans.
Yeah, you got it from the MSM. Otherwise, you’d have no reason to think that. I saw his speech that you speak of saying he wants to be a dictator, but you obviously didn’t
Noone who even “jokes” about wanting to be a dictator or president for life (like he said after meeting Xi Jinping) deserves to be anywhere near a seat of power. Any feedback on the rest? Like his habit of quoting Mein Kampf, praising Hitler, or how much people who identify as nazis love him? Don’t see any of that as the slightest bit problematic?
Joe’s got terrorist sympathizers that like him…does that make Joe a terrorist? And just because you don’t like Trumps jokes doesn’t make him a dictator either. He’s already been in office so we already know he’s not a nazi, dictator, etc.
